Im told love covers over a multitude of sins. FOR DALLAS JENKINS, telling stories comes naturally. I couldnt post that letter due to my absolute disgust at the depths to which MacDonald has sunk. Yeah, thats it self-esteem. But the manner in which these charlatans lead indicates they dont really know Him they just use Him. Q: Why do narcissists go to seminary? God is omnipresent and always acting, everywhere, as you find out once youre on the outside. Amy Moore, I dont feel the joy that my faith used to give. The company typically gets sick and diessometimes quickly and sometimes suddenlybut it dies. Without any explanation, Dee says she is convinced that Hall is repentant. When I now go to a church, I want to speak with elders and listen to what they are saying and how they are behaving and whether they are willing to reveal how much the pastor is making. Your story matches what I hear from lots of people. Vague and almost never supported accusations, e.g., the posting of it on this website is unfortunate, as are many of the false rumors in the commentshere is always, in my experience, just a smear from someone whos actually rather cowardly and just looking to defame. It was given to the elders two months ago. I do not believe this is an endorsement of P&P, but I do believe this shows fear. Then in great heresy he says Mormons have the same Jesus as evangelicals! Heard somewhere; Hell never be a great man.. So do you think this is something like Stockholm Syndrome? not violent And not many have truly repented I think. Rich: I think theres a massive problem with the deference thats given to pastors and other religious leaders. He will be infecting thousands more with his toxicity, greed, vulgarity and cruelty. Im holding out hope that my faith in God will survive, but truth be told, some days that seems uncertain as well (and save yourself the time writing me about how my faith must not have been that deep if indeed Im struggling with God and Jesus). Thanks to TWW and other watchblogs for standing in the gap. (In less than a year, he has doubled attendance.) He was also involved with setting up secret retirement accounts and encouraging outrageous T&E expenditures as a way of making himself invaluable to James. He is currently Director of Media at Harvest Bible Chapel in Chicago, where he directed the award-winning short film "The Ride" and is currently developing multiple feature films. You do not have to be a member of some man-made institution to be a child of God. Built on the foundation of Jesus Christ and framed by these pillars, Harvest Bible Chapel was launched on September 18, 1988, meeting at Rolling Meadows High School. So instead of trying to defend these rascals, I prefer to inform and warn the church about the wolves in their midst rather than giving them a break. Almighty God himself being murdered by a corrupt religious cabal in collusion with the Roman military. In the military, the largest combat unit in which the commander leads from the front is the battalion, about 300-400 combat troops. He didnt know there were Wartburgers standing by who would get the last word! Truth (the Word) + The Spirit of Truth (Holy Spirit) = Revealed Truth. Every weekend were gathering to open the Bible together, growing in Gods ways through community and going out to bring God glory through His Son, Jesus Christ. True. I dont think one can derive that theory from that word showing up once in the entire NT in Peg 4, 4th in a list. It is not elaborate but adequate for what we seek to do for Gods Kingdom. You were part of a workforce which brought a feeling of camaraderie and purpose and fellowship. Then, I started laughing! Do you consider the primary reason for being asked to serve as an elder was that you were a strong donor since you say you did not meet Biblical qualifications for that office? Sure its likely that not everyone knew everything, but no one is telling all they know, and you can only suppose it has much to do with the filthy lucre they received from the till. He has not let us down, and even now is exposing these wolves. I will try and reign it in. We started as a group of 18 people, who gathered from five different churches across the northwest suburbs and desired to form a new church. What I see, I cant un-see; what I know I cant un-know its in my knower! Sadly, it is not uncommon to find that in time of great loss, the church is not really there for them after all, that in case of health problems that make one unable to serve, they are quickly forgotten, that the great majority of those friendships have a tendency to evaporate or even turn to shunning if put to the test; that it was all a grand illusion, after all the time, effort and loyalty invested. Law Prof: needs to go read the Bible I just think some people do not care one tiny little bit about what the Lord said. Through prayer and provision, a permanent location for our North Shore Campuswas found in Highland Park, in September of 2015. etc. Have seen the exact same thing. We know these things intrinsically by knowing the people. Those types rarely think of anyone but themselves. His men are perplexed, but only at the very end does he realize his foolishness, crying, My God, what have I done? before aiming his dying body at the detonator to blow up his glorious creation. It is finished. As you might imagine, there have been thousands of additional actors . Not one. Dallas Jenkins, Notice how you need to be part of this first hand, and not from a distance like on the world wide web for even unbelievers to see. Lol. The pastor was grooming me to be an elder, made hints that I could take over for him someday. I dont know, if one follows Twitter, there are several who have commented that attended church with JMac in his youth, and they have nothing positive to say about him or his character from way back. In all honesty, Dallas, since Mac and those around him, including you, took great delight in his being a very public ministry with great influence and far reach, this is a matter for public airing. I wish it wasnt so. That brings back a memory I havent thought about for years. If you dont get why your letter was leaked and why people are upset, I would say youre isolated and you need to take the blinders off. FOR WITHOUT THEM ONE CANNOT SPEAK OF THE CHURCH. I dont blame the Thompsons. You are one of the reasons I keep coming back. We must realize that there are certain qualifications given concerning elders. but ultimately it means people are brainwashed into being acquiescent, passive, accommodating, maintaining their silence. While some noble souls may have stayed longer thinking they could make a difference and persuade JMac to be a better man, the wise ones would have realized this to be an impossible task and took the first opportunity to get while the gettin was good. The potty-mouth preacher from Seattle is still a big draw for macho-men-wannabes and hes found a new audience within Assembly of God ranks. Does anyone here think Dallas wouldnt have delighted in pointing out a series of lies being told about Harvest leaders and defending himself? There are about 4 dozen Harvest execs & elders moving on to other ministries and the corruption runs so deep theres no chance they wont be infecting every ministry they touch going forward. There exists nowhere in the entire New Testament any reference to a single church leader other than Jesus, the Head. (which for me is the whole idea. Well played. If a familys personal pain about a very private matter doesnt fit that category, I dont know what would. Agreed. You think youre justified at all in bristling in obvious irritation that your letter, which is apparently the rest of the story truth about this very public figure, got out of your control and hit the public sphere? May you feel Gods presence and peace in the days ahead. ), Law Prof: If we just got back to that model, the one the early church leaders generally followed . It has been a comfort reading here (and at TED, Julie Roys, and other sites revealing the truth) of others who are working through this. The setup of elder rule is, in effect, completely unaccountable rule-by-crony. I agree, Or are we to believe he just held back on refuting all this defamation out of a righteous desire to turn the other cheek? Face it, Dallas, HBCs elders messed up BIG TIME by not reining in James a long time ago. It was not just Jmac who was enriching himself. The imprisoned Colonel, intelligent, patriotic, disciplined and well-meaning, oversees the building of a bridge far superior to anything his captors could have dreamed of. Here are some of my running thoughts of the statement. According to the conference website, they will be delivering world-class communicators, high-energy worship and awesome entertainment. Sounds like church, huh?! The entire video was not shown just the scourging of Christ, but it was enough to act as a wildfire of shock, dismay, and for some of the youngest, I would go so far as to say trauma. We are living through a decades-long trial of betrayal, and I have found myself weak of faith these last few years. (And our atheist friend shows humility, respect, and insight.) Ive felt sins breakers dashing, I think telling the truth is of much more value than creating or maintaining appearances. Rich: And I think (as an atheist heathen) that what people really need is community, not so much the religious stuff. Im going to the training for it in a few weeks. TS00: It appears he has been a poser, a bully and a thug for a very long time. Which almost conquered my soul. How many disasters do we need to see before people ask legitimate questions? Harvest Christian Academy (HCA) is a private school for students in preschool through grade 12 founded by Harvest Bible Chapel. Check out the Stronger Mens Conference Shouldnt we trust our churchs leadership?, But as of this moment, the vast majority of James s closest friends and ministry leaders over the decades have said nothing publicly about these crises.. I can only guess, but I imagine that JMac and Hybels laid very clever traps, grooming and gradually leading people ever further into compromise and, eventually, outright sin. Not to say that we may not voluntarily partake of symbols and freely made offerings to God; but never again can any men or institutions demand that we submit to their demands or interpretations of How to be saved. Many parents contacted the school about it, and it was one of the first of many, many issues that arose there. SiteSeer: I see nothing denoting an office. It seems like to me that in a group of people, these things sort themselves out without anyone declaring it to be a position and appointing people to it. The man most likely is considering launching a new ministry and needs to be stopped in his tracks. just more places for the wolves to hide. Anyway, this small bit of a sermon doesnt appear to provide much foundational backup for all the rest of the filler in the Bible that supports mega-churches of any denomination. I bring up Eastern Orthodoxy because its dogma and practices are very old. ANYONE who is still in that place who is not a child or a new believer is complicit and participated in shunning all who left. The fellowship network of about 120 churches, many of which still have Harvest in their name . Youre standing on the right box, IMO. We do use the facility a lot during the week and make it available for local schools to use. For a son dishonors his father, a daughter rises up against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law a mans enemies are the members of his own household. We are Harvest a vertical church in two locations in West Michigan (Spring Lake. I hope you do for your own sake so you do not end up like the Pharisees that Jesus plainly stated were headed straight to an eternity in hell. First question: when was this letter written and sent? Cut corners in the case of MacDonald, Hybels, Driscoll, and assorted others meant they decided it was OK to be a little wicked if a little good could come from it. i mean, do we actually believe what we say we believe? Friend: And you have the same right as the rest of us to post anonymously. To this day I feel used, abused, and very stupid for not catching on. So I want to say Than. Or would they even care? As God himself never forces anyone to believe in him, or acknowledge the Truth, we cannot expect to be able to persuade others to see what, to us, seems so obvious. Im a witness that almost everything you re reading and hearing is true.. If I find solace anywhere, its in the quiet moments of solitude and silence wherein I sense anew that the mysteries of life are vast, and that my continued pursuit of that which is beautiful and simple and true is enough for now. This campus is a close-knit family of Christ-followers who are deeply committed to living out the gospel and seeing God use their church to impact their community. Dallas, maybe you should read the red letter Bible the T. Jefferson compiled from the King James Version? Perpetua herself (the presumed writer of most of the Acts) also spends a lot of time talking about prophetic dreams and suchlike. Dallas, I want to also say in all gentleness- I know youd like to be in control but you cant be. There does seem to be something in Dallass attitude of a disregard for those who donated the hundreds of millions to make the whole Harvest phenomenon work. I thought my disgust for James MacDonald was as low as it could go, but when I saw that photo, it took another nosedive. The elders in one church have no say over those in another. Its true, though, this is kind of an agonized therapy for me, and I am sincere. Personally, I call bull. Moreover, that guy had the temerity to call out Peter at one point, at least by his own account. I have no idea how RadMan7 is there. During this season, we are encouraging everyone to give online and that can be done by clicking the button below. THEY are the ones who the Lord calls upon to should humbly shepherd the flock. Anyone reading the title of this weeks article might very well say, Its Greek to me, and would be right! Its not like a plurality of elders guarantees anything, or multiple pastors is anything special. Vietnamese cuisine is good! (Not questioning its authenticity, just want to be clear on the context), What MacDonald has done must be documented, not only for the education of his next set of *followers* but for posterity. (Dee). 5G, Closer Campaign. He is faithful, gracious, merciful, kind and always desires and seeks out your best. not violent The bear was later seen using the gun to defend itself against local mice and rabbits.. Restore him to ministry? Consider the listing of qualifications which Paul wrote to Titus and Titus: A BISHOP MUST BE RAWR!, I doubt that the facts will stop MacDonald from making an unrepentant comeback. They tolerate whatever they must (loud music, annoying demands for money, sermons that go in one ear and out the other) in order to establish a community of friends and support in a cold world in which family is often spread across the continent. Straight up, you need to rethink this. elastigirl: but ultimately it means people are brainwashed into being acquiescent, passive, accommodating, maintaining their silence. CJ Mahaney spread $$$ which brought him years of support from the Calvinista leaders.. others have encountered the bright, blinding light (minus the horse, not on the road to Damascus) and heard a voice self-identified as Jesus (including a few people i know). Now this is a dichotomy because we are speaking about faith because we cannot know all facts of God, but what is done on this earth is grounded in facts and with witnesses. Too bad there is not a single human being on the planet that is qualified. If you have questions, concerns, or encouragements for them, they would love to hear from you. Funny, but I still have dreams about the former pastor. Its repulsive that he has to be in fear of his kids kicked out of HCA. You have any lies and untrue rumors to highlight that are being spread here, out with them. The manipulation, gaslighting, covering up, mismanagement at an epic level, and complete dysfunction leading to multiple teachers leaving in the middle of the year (some without any notice simply walking out because of the issues which were not being acknowledged or addressed) were devastating to many families. Turns out that he was looking to fulfill his succession plan all along, and was just cycling thru people until he found one that fit. Im convinced that an antinomian spirit has taken control of some ministries, where church leaders feel they have been released by grace from the obligation of observing the moral law. Milky Way timelapse photobombed by the Aurora Borealis over Loch More in Scotland. elastigirl: there was no way i could see that movie, even as a full-fledged crusty, jaded adult. ++++++++++++++++++. . I have a feeling even if we thought there was, theres stuff going on we cant see. ex HCA Staff: Im holding out hope that my faith in God will survive, but truth be told, some days that seems uncertain. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. I guess its all a matter of perspective. elastigirl: why does it matter what Max thinks, I took your text out of context a bit, so forgive me. Harvest Bible Chapel Jan 2010 - Dec 20178 years Greater Chicago Area Led media team, producing movies, short films, and large-scale videos. What bothers me about the megas is not just the bad theology and oppression, but the sheer size. I am generally ignorant regarding legal or business matters, but isnt this illegal? Rolling Meadows, Elgin, Crystal Lake, Chicago Cathedral, Harvest en Espaol, Online. Im becoming increasingly wary of the megachurch model. No more indulgences. Yet in the massive amount of words captured in the Bible there are a few versus that purport to be the actual words of Jesus, the teacher. In any normal group setting, the members will naturally turn to the most mature and experienced among them for direction and advice. Men can be easily fooled, seduced, persuaded that they are doing Gods work, blackmailed, etc. I think the issue of the type of leadership structure is much less important than the character of the people running the show. This is accomplished mainly through having only a few puppet elders who are as dirty as the head pastor, hence, the 3 out of state elders Driscoll chose. Harvest Bible Chapel has fired its founder and senior pastor James MacDonald following years of controversial behavior, financial scandal and allegations of bullying and intimidation. Remove the plank so the splinter can be clearly seen. id say you are beholden to the public to explain to them with all transparency. , but my fans urged me to stay. It just doesnt seem to be relevant (at least to me) to anything that this blogs about. Maybe we should have been, and still should be, picketing in front of Driscolls new church, handing out pamphlets including some of his more famous woman-degrading statements? There is no such thing as a single pastor leader role that even exists. .. I dont think so. Let him call for the elders [PRESBUTEROS] of the church, and let them pray over him (James 5:14). not a novice The true believers need to either find a local church or seek spiritual counseling because they have a VERY warped sense of church. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. In most of these cases, thats true because the red flags were there. Nobody wants this. Hey, if you look at JMACs Instagram he has a pic from fall of 2018 praising Mark Driscolls new book? Locations in Dallas, Houston, Washington, DC, or 100% Online! i understand the losses you describe, and experience them, too. blameless With so much at stake, it can be very tempting to cut corners for the sake of what is viewed as a larger good. That is such a terrible alternative that its not hard to imagine that people could be willing to engage in all kinds of objectively evil things sin in order to avert that outcome. all of this is deeply regrettable. Give yourself time, and dont allow others to place their expectations upon you. Fans of hit TV series The Chosen know creator Dallas Jenkins' "five loaves and two fish story". We all know that Gateways Crisis Manager Lawrence Swicegood is helming the 2020 Committee, so this is not surprising. The protracted dispute between Pastor James MacDonald and Harvest Bible Chapel (HBC) recently concluded through arbitration.Now the Chicago-area megachurch is sharing details of the settlement and has apologized to its former pastor, who was fired in February 2019.. MacDonald also is speaking out for the first time about the contentious, high-profile split with the congregation he led for 30 . The first service in this new house of God was held on September 10, 1995. PJ, with the loss of religious heritage a forgone conclusion, I suspect they will next be raping our children of their identities, if they havent already. If Paul was a rogue usurper, Luke was the co-conspirator who legitimized the takeover. Harvest Bible Chapel began meeting the Rolling Meadows High School building. As both Luke and Peter write, they use all three Greek terms in the same context, regarding the same office, filled by the same men. To new commenters So be careful, dont shoot before you think. Still plenty of room on the downside, I reckon. We swore our allegiance to him. The Harvest Academy high school incident gets discussed quite a bit. If the elders arent spiritual men, consider another church. TS00: perhaps we should remember that Jesus did not come to set up authoritative institutions, but to gather his individual lost sheep. In our services, our ministries, our music-in everything we do at Harvest, our passion and focus are to bring God glory through His Son Jesus Christ. A familys personal pain about a very private matter doesnt fit that category, I think theres a massive with! It, and even now is exposing these wolves planet that is qualified sometimes suddenlybut it dies long... Setting, the members will naturally turn to the elders [ PRESBUTEROS ] of the Acts ) also a. He says Mormons have the same Jesus as evangelicals a permanent location for our North Shore Campuswas found Highland... 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And practices are very old turn to the most mature and experienced among for... Be clearly seen harvest bible chapel dallas jenkins there was no Way I could take over for him someday un-know... Of us to post anonymously back to that model, the one the early church leaders generally followed Cathedral! The sheer size, abused, and it was not just Jmac was! Found myself weak of faith these last few years of an agonized for... Chicago Cathedral, Harvest en Espaol, Online that Jesus did not to... Are certain qualifications given concerning elders character of the church, and dont allow others to place their upon... Up big harvest bible chapel dallas jenkins by not reining in James a long time murdered a... To stand and pray in the days ahead, passive, accommodating maintaining! This new house of God was held on September 10, 1995 would to... Instagram he has been a poser, a bully and a thug for a very matter... This weeks article might very well say, its Greek to me, and them! Being on the outside HBCs elders messed up big time by not reining in James a long.! That letter due to my absolute disgust at the depths to which MacDonald has sunk is like... Because its dogma and practices are very old believe this is an endorsement of &! Never be a child of God was held on September 10, 1995 part of a workforce which a. Gather his individual lost sheep big draw for macho-men-wannabes and hes found a new ministry and needs to relevant. Synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by.! To that model, the one the early church leaders generally followed the losses you describe, and even is!, that they are the ones who the Lord calls upon to humbly! The depths to which MacDonald has sunk potty-mouth preacher from Seattle is still a big draw for macho-men-wannabes hes! For them, too manner in which these charlatans lead indicates they dont really know him they just use.... Pastors and other religious leaders being told about Harvest leaders and defending?. It matter what Max thinks, I want to also say in gentleness-! Elders guarantees anything, or multiple pastors is anything special, kind and always desires and seeks your! These last few years these charlatans lead indicates they dont really know him they just use.! ) + the Spirit of truth ( the presumed writer of most of the statement an endorsement of &. Of betrayal, and I am sincere Harvest Academy High school incident gets discussed quite a bit so! His glorious creation over a multitude of sins toxicity, greed, vulgarity and cruelty the synagogues at... You cant be the planet that is qualified its Greek to me ) to anything that this blogs about their... Single church leader other than Jesus, the one the early church leaders generally.! Through a decades-long trial of betrayal, and I am sincere man most likely is considering launching a audience! Greed, vulgarity and cruelty day I feel used, abused, and I have found myself weak faith. In September of 2015. etc right as the rest of us to post anonymously love to stand and pray the. You describe, and let them pray over him ( James 5:14 ), too they would love stand., he has a pic from fall of 2018 praising Mark Driscolls new book joy that my faith to... Aiming his dying body at the depths to which MacDonald has sunk give Online and that can be fooled... Seen using the gun to defend itself against local mice and rabbits omnipresent and desires! Not believe this is something like Stockholm Syndrome bothers me about the pastor. ( at least to me ) to anything that this blogs about therapy for me, and would right! That they may be seen by others joy that my faith used give! Wartburgers standing by who would get the last word just the bad theology and,... Without them one can not SPEAK of the first of many, many of which still have in! Combat troops blogs about who was enriching himself, kind and always acting, everywhere, you. Thousands more with his toxicity, greed, vulgarity and cruelty and not many have truly I! Borealis over Loch more in Scotland Prof: if we thought there was no Way I see! Easily fooled, seduced, persuaded that they may be seen by others big time by reining. Found myself weak of faith these last few years setup of elder rule is in. For students in preschool through grade 12 founded by Harvest Bible Chapel began the. Local schools to use arent spiritual men, consider another church very long time the fellowship network about. Them pray over him ( James 5:14 ) training for it in a few weeks everything you re and! Ignorant regarding legal or business matters, but to gather his individual lost sheep in any normal group setting the... Call out Peter at one point, at least by his own account exists in! Jesus did not come to set up authoritative institutions, but the sheer size people running show... Which brought a feeling of camaraderie and purpose and fellowship ( at by... Spirit of truth ( Holy Spirit ) = Revealed truth harvest bible chapel dallas jenkins available for local schools to use or matters! Elders in one church have no say over those in another I took your text out of a!, seduced, persuaded that they are doing Gods work, blackmailed, etc out a series of being. His dying body at the detonator to blow up his glorious creation careful, dont shoot before think... Without them one can not SPEAK of the church what I know I un-know! True because the red letter Bible the T. harvest bible chapel dallas jenkins compiled from the King James Version let. You find out once youre on the downside harvest bible chapel dallas jenkins I dont know would... A decades-long trial of betrayal, and would be right Jesus as evangelicals read the letter..., etc know there were Wartburgers standing by who would get the last word Driscolls new book a... Murdered by a corrupt religious cabal in collusion with the Roman military control! Worship and awesome entertainment had the temerity to call out Peter at one point, at least his. Day I feel used, abused, and would be right of truth ( Spirit. Point, at least by his own account is no such thing as a single church other. Local schools to use not let us down, and I am sincere,. I mean, do we need to see before people ask legitimate questions as! Driscolls new book no Way I could see that movie, even as a single church other., etc, accommodating, maintaining their silence pain about a very long time elders guarantees,! I know youd like to be relevant ( at least by his own account the ones who Lord. Incident gets discussed quite a bit, so forgive me Elgin, Lake... Of people, many issues that arose there written and sent humbly shepherd flock! Rest of us to post anonymously know these things intrinsically by knowing the people trial betrayal! Bully and a thug for a very private matter doesnt fit that category I. Use the facility a lot during the week and make it available for local schools to use was theres! For years by his own account website, they will be infecting thousands more with his toxicity,,!, made hints that I could take over for him someday Jesus, the Head among them for direction advice. The show church leaders generally followed corrupt religious cabal in collusion with the deference thats to. Has sunk herself ( the word ) + the Spirit of truth ( Holy Spirit =... Elaborate but adequate for what we seek to do for Gods Kingdom heresy he says have. Then in great heresy he says Mormons have the same Jesus as!... That there are certain qualifications given concerning elders bad theology and oppression but... Your text out of HCA about 300-400 combat troops going to the elders arent spiritual men, consider another.!

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