There are old social scars that still ache. Ive always been under the impression that you dont disturb someone at work. Guys can be very easy-going with their toiletries and appearance. Just be honest, if you are inviting her to be physically intimate then make sure she has all the hints and please just make sure she knows that you like her in that way. If it werent for the fact that shes very understanding about how introverted I am it would bug the hell out of me, and if we werent close friends if probably be mysteriously perma-busy after a few occasions of this (after trying Use Your Words, depending on how much I cared about the friendship.) Here are a few pointers you can incorporate in your quest. A little flirting goes a long way. Le sigh. If the friend did just knock on their door, then sure, some guidance on boundaries is probably needed, but if the LW asked in a way that allowed the friend to gracefully decline the invitation, then thats already expressing respect for boundaries and the friend is possibly overreacting by calling them out on it. But something like a board game night or a party where everybody but one person was invited, yeah Id avoid that because it seems mean. Later, after invites had gone out and the spares were given to the Bride, Bride told housemate to tell me I was invited verbally while at some other event. Yeah, definitely my building has a lock on the front gate that can only be opened with a key, no buzzer/code to punch in/etc., so my friends have to text me in order to get to my doorbell anyway; I would rather they just text me and have me run out to the car to save them the trouble of parking! Awful. Were in a cultural phase where Are we still on for tonight? is an actual question people text you 15 minutes before youre supposed to meet them. A simple text letting him know you're looking forward to hanging out is sufficient. This might just be me though, I come from a conservative latinx household, so even the thought of constantly being over at someone's house is a bit uncomfortable to me. FWIW I think your manners were fine, and your reading on the situation of friend vs SO is pretty socially ept. I invite my parents to visit with the intended side-effect of getting the darn house cleaned up beyond: Oh, uh, the mail is all in one pile, and I think Ive collected the worst of the catumbleweeds.. You can ask directly, but it might not be something that the friend can articulate clearly. Instead of telling you in a calm voice that he wasnt ready to hang out yet, or asking you to duck out for another half-hour, or have a respectful conversation about how he felt upset about you coming early, he blew his top and attacked you. If he is informed properly ahead of time he wont be able to cancel on you with some lame excuse that he has had other plans, that his apartment is messy or that you have not told him prior to that. This is a very interesting topic. And your expectations sound like theyre probably just fine. I dont think either method is wrong, but its hard to make them compatible. Its not that different. On the topic of wanting to clean before people show up, I REALLY HATE when people respond to your desire to clean up with oh I dont mind the mess! Look, well intentioned person*, its not about you! I think thats *incredibly* relevant to this issue. I didnt get one, so I didnt go. Until one evening when I kind of rebelled against it by lingering for five or ten minutes and ignoring the cues to get out. If they dont act like they like me (even if they actually do but dont bother to behave like they do), they obviously dont want to really be friends. One night at around midnight one of them (we shall call her Britney) woke my by pounding on my door with such ferocity that I thought there must be an emergency, so I opened the door. I mind people seeing things that I put away when I know people are coming. LW, as a general rule (at least in most parts of North America and Europe), I think youll usually be safe with these guidelines: dont just show up at someones house (unless theyve told you they like when people do that) and dont be the one to suggest you go to your friends house (unless youre quite close or theyve told you they like that). Becoming more adept at these important social skills is not impossible, but it takes motivation and hard work. BUT.is it because you assume that is the case when you happen to know someone was in the area and yet didnt drop round? An ex-partner of mine used to plan their scheduling (work, social and romantic) very tightly. Today, after school. After some time, call him on the phone and act tipsy. Then if the friend wants to, she can suggest you come to her house but if shes not up for that, she can decline altogether or agree to meet up elsewhere without feeling like she was put on the spot. Im in the I love random visitors camp, but Ive also got a very strong case of friends accept me as I am fallacy when it comes to those unexpected visitors intersecting with chores. I think if we are all grown ups now, we should all know its rude to discuss an event a member of the conversation wasnt invited to deliberately. In my nMoms reality, faaaaaaaaaaaamily can just pop in any time of day or night, and call you whenever they like, too. And I would probably stop initiating other kinds of hangouts (or at least do so less frequently) to see whether the friend really wanted us to keep being friends or if they were trying to naturally drift apart. Just follow these tips Alan Garner lays out in Conversationally Speaking: Keep a dual perspective. I am so glad asking this question because its one Ive also had, although in my case Im on the other side of the fence Im friends with the mom, and her daughter likes my kids, but they cant stand her. I hope you get invited to the event! CONGRATULATIONS YOU HAVE MADE PLANS TO SEE A FUNNY MOVIE. I also generally deal with social anxiety and nothing brings it to a head like uncertainty of being welcome. I want to hang out, but Im not psychic! No notice necessary.. Or a sitting room. Its what it says on the tin! Because Ive had way too many experiences with neighbours and friendlies (people who arent your friends, but who you are friendly with) just walking all over boundaries and inserting themselves into your day for HOURS. Providing a thoughtful comment on a blog post of a friend, or community contact. Like you, if specifically invited, its green; anything else is red. All the adults in the household work full time, they have kids, they have pets, they have physical disabilities couple any one of those with feelings of shame over a cluttered or messy living space, and youre there. It is at someones home, and if you were invited, youd already be invited, or the person will use this conversation to specifically invite you by adding If you are free, you are welcome to come. Your script(s) are I hope the weather is nice/that sounds fun/Is it for a special occasion or just hanging out., Person #3: Im doing house stuff, too. If she does make plans with you and invest something into the friendship, I think switching to Im going to be in your area running errands, want to meet for coffee/lunch/whatever? is going to prevent any future issues. I am generally the organiser of things in my social life and I normally follow the ask twice guideline that the Captain mentions with the occasional rinse and repeat in a month or two if I hear nothing and still want to see that person. Do something about the many, many piles of random crap and books and papers and and. Had a neighbor knock over and over for 45 minutes, and then YELL at me when I came to the window, demanding I tell her why I wouldnt open the door when she knew I was home. I announced a Rule that anyone who shows up early is working, and the next time those same bachelors showed up early, I handed each one a chore. People seem to vary widely, so Im a big proponent of Ask, not Guess. But if its someone Im not intimate enough with to say that to, then sufficient advance notice is required so I can say nope, I was about to take a nap check with me in an hour if you are still around. ! like, uhh, at home because I thought the plans were canceled since you never got back to me.. No one needs to know how I live.). The rule Ive always applied (both in how I approach others and in how I work out if friends are being reasonable or pushy) is does an ask have an easy way for the askee to say no. To me, Family are the people who, if they show up early, can be pressed into cleaning and other prep. At home, with no planned activity, there is no outside authority to appeal to, and if youre the type to solve problems or offer to pitch in rather than take the hint it can be pretty stressful. Seconded! But I also think that its one thing to set boundaries with friends and family, and another with people you are intimate with because even if youre not actively cohabitating, not having the kind of relationship where you can share space would feel very alarming. STOP THAT, PEOPLE. Hrm. Other people find it a very productive way to be, however. That is why people default to simply not doing the thing that some people find rude. Me and my best friend, whose kids are really close with my kids, have our kids on opposite weekends Theres often the necessity of figuring out Okay is {kid} at her moms this weekend or her dads? It appears that the situation has changed, but I dont think theres anything to be gained by retroactively criticizing the LW for something which we cant know the appropriateness or not of at the time. Ideally they text you when theyre on the way so you know when to be ready, so you can just be waiting for them anyway. and our If you want to build that kind of social situation into your norms then its (JUST) up to you to tell your friends to stop by whenever theyre in your area. c. Dirty Dishes. Also, if you say youre coming around X time, come around X time. Calling me from the car as you sit in my driveway does not count as calling ahead. It might just be easier to never mention social plans around her, but thats not really a sustainable optionis it? people that wont stop by even when theyre in the area, even if they are driving right by, even if they have nothing pressing to do, JUST because some people think its rude.- Do you actually know thats why, though? For example if Bob Alice Camille Davy et al all know that Bob and Gerry are going on their honeymoon starting on Friday, I will feel fine talking about the picnic on Saturday. I like your suggestions about neutral spaces too, will definitely use that in future. What is it about gaming people that makes them like this? If people are showing up uninvited at the door of someone who doesnt like it, that someone would have to have a conversation asking them not to do the thing they are doing, possibility coming across as unfriendly in the process and creating some awkward tension in the relationship. I have been trying to explain to her that she cant invite herself to her friends places and she has not been really getting why. He would not be able to remember to do it, would not choose a socially appropriate time and place to do it if he did remember, and would not issue an invitation that T would be able to understand, let alone accept. I dont want to guess at anyones feelings, but I thought Id share some of the things about that situation that made it difficult for me to deal with. If this is a guy you've been seeing for awhile, but he's refused to have you over, there's a chance he's hiding something. Im okay with that sort of conversation, yet its been my experience that most people are not. And I have best friends where they get a are you guys home text before I show up most times, just in case theyre asleep or away. Followed by pedicures and an outdoor screening of Clueless? My main issue is that everyone is so casual that nobody really helps with dishes/cooking/food shopping/cleaning/chopping wood/preparing bait and so partner and I end up running around from dawn till dusk, taking care of a bunch of drunk guys relaxing on our lawn and trying to make small talk with strangers. I'm good at it. I cant always do everything with all the family. Their DNA will be rearranged to spell people are different, try to tactfully and honestly ask whats on their mind. 1.5. Id probably start avoiding their neighbourhood, tbh. My ex was such a polar opposite person who needed her alone time unless specific arrangements were made. At the time we were both only working part time with some help from my student loans, and making an extra meal, possibly for all three of us, wasnt always a welcome expense. Then again, those were people who didnt expect you to drop every little thing to amuse them, and before living in a way that wouldnt allow for friends to stop by without cleaning for hours werent a thing, either. Im glad Im not the only person who got a needy vibe from that. I dont think Id send the same sort of can I drop in? text to, say, a coworker or someone who I wasnt cool being kind of disheveled around. Or is the drop by the first time they are coming over, and how do they even know where I live? It seemed like most people of my parents generation that I knew had a living room for visits, and a den for family.). An unannounced home-visit, however, doesnt have a built-in time limit, and this might be part of the reason she is not open to them. AUGH the theres always a but makes me so RAGEY. Whenever I want to hang out with ANYONE I know I always drop a text beforehand and make sure my wording sends the message that its totally optional on their part to agree to hang or not. To me, it matters what sort of event it is. You: I really enjoyed meeting you, Id love to get together sometime soon., You: So happy to hear it. So I certainly think its possible that some kids would benefit from more guidance/help at a given age than others, and based on Elizabeths description of the situation, her son definitely might be one of them. What works or worked in LWs life is the issue, not my reactions to hugs. If you are going to be in the neighborhood, and would like to meet up with someone who lives there, I might suggest a call or a text like Im going to be in your part of town, on Wednesday. My familys got some issues. It's a public place. So no. ), and enthusiastically said shes be there. As people get to know me, they learn that its usually best not to give me advice unless I directly ask for it (because if I want it, I will). For example if someone is hosting a small dinner party, you probably shouldn't ask if you could attend at the last minute. 2. Yeah, thats what bugs me: I understand Things Happen, but to just turn up hours late without an explanation and then expect that the host will want to stick around and talk? You can go on and offer to fix him one of your favorite most loved recipes for dinner sometime that you are sure he will love. That goes for online engagements too. But if not, let it slide. Er yes, you have? Oh also, the good old days when people could just drop by anytime had rules too, they were just different rules. Turns out those same people liked to gang up on me with emotional abuse and gaslighting. The only difference I can tell between this and the bike incident is that it was about a bike and it would be me dropping by her home rather than office. Wait until you know him better. If youre going to Drop by dont plan to be here for more than 10 minutes. Going around the corner for drinks? Small apartment. When I really wanted to connect with someone, I used to read the soft no as a problem that I could solve, like, Oh, thats not a problem, I can come to you instead! I will deliver the free comic books to your house, along with ice cream, and that random vacuum cleaner part you once mentioned in passing that you needed! I looked at the reason for the refusal and ignored that it was a refusal. again, we dont all have to be friends. The easiest way to get a guy to invite you over is to suggest the idea to him in a way that will make it nearly impossible for him to say no. Also, that not getting an invite isnt actually a reflection of your friendship with someone nor is it proof that youre a horrible bad person that no one will ever love. I was overwhelmed because I felt I had to pack + entertain her. But, it's still a bit strange, at least for me, to invite yourself and others to a home that isn't yours. AT the very least, we are going to go VERY low contact. Firstly, if he laughs and giggles about these situations, that means that he is interested in talking to you and enjoys your time. If the LW did the same here, e.g. Its a pretty good rule of thumb for friending, as it is for dating, I find. Come for dinner tonight at 8:00 is an invitation, Come by later is Hey, glad to see you, we should catch up at length soon. I havent spent time in Brazil, so I dont know if thats a Brazilian thing or a dudes-who-grew-up-with-M-specifically-where-he-grew-up thing but it is a real thing, and M. has had to rethink and clarify it for American friends now that he lives here. With regard to dropping by a friends house, I made that mistake once while I was in a friends neighborhood. You don't want to seem desperate, more like you think it sounds interesting and may drop by, but if you can't come it's no big deal, and it wouldn't mortally offend you or anything. You may say something like, "That sounds great. We talked about boys, sex, parents, money, school. We actually moved to a new unit in our complex to get away from her. How about you suggest the idea to him in a way that will make it impossible for him to say no. And some guys think women really like to be cooked for, so he could have good intentions. Thats what my partner says (the part about the very casual social culture with BBQs and fishing.) What if it rains, or snows, or if its swelteringly hot outside? The short version, LW, is: Always ask. Privacy Policy. I use Handcent SMS instead. Im already in the zone, so if someone cruises by and is like HEYYYYY I WAS PASSING THROUGH, well, I was already mentally prepared for interruption. I love being around people and socializing, but only if Ive had time to gain some energy/prepare for these hangouts. But why do you want them to walk from their car to your door and back again regardless of the weather? I told another one of these people, its a small place, there isnt enough room for everyone to sleep, and they offered to rent an RV and park it in the yard! Me: Actually, I was sleeping. Anything other than an enthusiastic yes is a no. I'm telling you from experience: Nothing is going to kill the vibe quicker than a dirty, dank, disgusting apartment. And Im usually ok w/ that. I expect that this is remarkably relevant to the whole I need to clean because someone is about to visit issue these days, houses are smaller than gentry-and-nobility houses, and we mostly dont have parlors separate from living areas. I enjoy doing that the way some people enjoy playing softball. She also loves scheduling my time and making commitments and assigning work for me without asking first. Those good old days are likely to have sucked for people with anxiety disorders/other mental health issues/chronic pain/chronic fatigue. I tend to get to parties and stuff early because I have severe anxieties about being late. My interpretation isnt that the world has changed to respect peoples boundaries, its that the world (as I experience it) has changed in response to technology and moving to a big city from a small town and that my anxieties havent grown less because boundaries are different, they have just shifted their arena. The best option is to talk to him about it, see what his expectations might be, and then decide what you are comfortable with. I personally would have been thrilled if OP had dropped by to show off their new bike but clearly that doesnt work for their friend. It also covers how to avoid awkward silence, attract amazing friends, and why you don't need an "interesting life" to make interesting conversation. I would tell you upon arrival that when you want me to leave, just say so (blunt person as I am, it might be phrased as the moment Im a bother, sweep me out). I think Id find a different vacation place and then NEVER tell anyone else where we were going or when! Yeah, thatd be fun!. I think this is one of those areas that is super frustrating because there is just not a clear rule. (My friend is a really good person and as close to a sibling as Ive got outside my actual family. That would all be my absolute idea of a nightmare. However, I have partially solved this with my close friends by bravely using my words. Thats an attractive quality. Since I became bedbound Ive had to have my parents here, in my house. Part of that is that my schedule is jam-packed and I struggle to fit in everything I have to do, so unscheduled drop-ins mess it all up. I didnt even feel bad, they should know better than to accept an invitation from the boyfriend of the friend of the child of the host anyway, unless its an invitation to an 80s college movie kegger. Like you could ask how about a homemade meal and the latest movie at your place on Saturday night?It takes guts to ask that question and be sure to know what to wear to his place for dinner. Heres the difference between your pet peeve and the pet peeve of the person youre replying to. Of course that when I invite you hes also invited! Show up with boyfriend to events that are pretty obviously not SO friendly (girls only brunches/nights out) In your case, maybe it would help if you tried throwing out lines like if you have any advice, feel free when discussing your problems? And try not to do it too often, and make more of an effort the smaller number of people will be there, but at least they know that its a possibility. We knew we disagreed on a few things, knew we were different people, but the love and support was always there until it wasnt. Let me know how that goes does actually more than just not asking to invite you. I am personally saving the galaxy from assimilation because I will never solve it. sent a text saying they were in the neighbourhood and was it ok to drop by, that (as the Captain says) is totally not the same as inviting themselves over which is what the friend has accused them of. Yes. (For values of we meaning the people of my generation that I know. Don't expect him to have everything you need. As someone who NEEDS a lot of being-away-from-other-humans time, I am deeeeeply unhappy when someone just shows up at my door. I discuss it more in this article, about when you're not sure if people are really interested in being friends with you or not. If the guy were my boyfriend, not just someone Id gone on a few dates with, it would either be fine or, if Id wanted to do something before everyone came over, mildly annoying. Amongst my good friends, I am not ever upset when they invite themselves over, we are close, and it never bothers me. How wrong I was. But arkadyrose was talking about wedding with one person and another person inserted themself into the conversation. Maybe I'll drop by later. Talking/texting/chatting with one member of a friend group every couple of days can pay great dividends on group events, I have found. After the length of time it takes to drink one cup of tea, you must make polite noises about going. Day of, Ill send him a text asking hey is today still ok or should we reschedule. Were all moving to different cities now so I guess it wont be a problem any more with that specific group. I would hate everything about this. Thats great if you have the time and the energy to do that. But I also have friends where hey Im heading that way and Ill be there in an hour can I crash on your couch tonight? is completely acceptable (but also comes with a side of being told no, actually I cant crash tonight because kids are sick/family is in town/someone else has the couch). If he is a gamer, you may offer to have a gaming night at his place. Is this something I should be policing in my speech? Think about this for a second. except when you dont think of the relationship the same way. Im someone with a developmental disorder, and commenting on other people doing bizarre and/or not-okay things with stuff that says theyre just like a three-year-old or mentally twelve or whatever is really, really gross. The enthusiastic feeling that the Christmas holidays bring is irreplaceable. Asking someone over to hang out at your house is much more personal if you ask him in person -- when that's possible and practical. ", (The classic indirect way) "Oh, that sounds like it'll be fun" (and hope they get the hint and formally invite you. She ended up getting invited to stuff a lotttt less, and then finally not at all for the better part of a year, because even if her boyfriend had been someone we liked being around (he wasnt) it was always a gamble that shed show up with him. Them:I want to see What We Do In The Shadows., You:Me too. More answers below Cheryl Robinson-Atwood Former RN (1996-2009) Author has 2.4K answers and 1.9M answer views Dec 13 Sponsored by Forbes Advisor Best pet insurance of 2023. Its the soft no issue. Based on his demeanor he is ready too but is probably too shy to ask you over. noticing the feeling Oh, thats a good point. Who DOES this? Ask him over because he won't say no. Ive ceased making overtures entirely, except for polite greetings when I see them out and about. This is not the first time Ive had it rough with best friends or high-intensity, close-knit groups. Hah. Whether youre in your 20s or 50s, you still dont want to come on too desperate or too strong at the same time. For example, offer to cook him a homemade meal, or show interest in his favorite game/show that he watches. I dont have kids, and every once in a while I experience culture shock when other people talk about kid things. I seem to decode unsolicited advice as a show of caring and a genuine interest in my needs. If its someone I havent seen in a while who is finally back in town and a surprise its both good and bad. Le sigh. I care a *lot*, because having my mother constantly belittle me, my housekeeping skills and my space whenever she visits makes my home feel not like a safe space. Britney: Well, now youre awake, so get ready and lets go. Dont even start playing that game you wanted to play, or reading that book youre reading, because god forbid youre in the middle of something when someone arrives! mostly this is something the other person would figure out on their own, not something you would tell them. Or a girl invites you over to her house straight from a dating app? Or maybe I just had other plans for the next hour and now Im going to be behind on the day. Meet you at the theater at 1:40?. Especially re: the Geek Social Fallacy that if you invite a few members of The Group to do a thing, any other member that learns about the thing should also be invited? They wonder if they should take charge and ask if they can come along, but they're also worried that everyone doesn't actually want them there. He hadnt received the email and was furious. Especially ride-share to that conference, carpool, etc. About half of the time the idea of having an unexpected guest fills me with dread because I have used up all my dealing-with-people energy (probably some time in the course of my long work week) and the guest is interrupting my VERY IMPORTANT time alone with my xbox or a book. Thumb for friending, as it is with best friends or high-intensity, close-knit groups homemade! Lays out in Conversationally Speaking: Keep a dual perspective if Ive had to pack + entertain her makes like. Like you, Id love to get together sometime soon., you probably should n't ask if you made. To this issue expect him to have everything you need like uncertainty of being welcome to cook him text! Is probably too shy to ask you over is ready too but is too! 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Be easier to never mention social plans around her, but Im not the only person who needed alone..., Ill send him a homemade meal, or community contact a coworker or someone who NEEDS a of! And fishing. looking forward to hanging out is sufficient from her them compatible he! ; that sounds great, Ill send him a text asking hey is today still or... Course that when I know people are different, try to tactfully and honestly ask on... Are a few pointers you can incorporate in your quest the short version, LW,:... Sustainable optionis it them like this dont have kids, and your expectations sound like theyre probably just.! But.Is it because you assume that is why people how to invite yourself over to a guys house to simply not doing the thing some... Must make polite noises about going its both good and bad the conversation friend is really...
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