jack schaap net worth

His followers were blindly loyal to him. Thank you, Reverend, for pointing out the truth. He recalls being instructed on several occasions to go into the projects and fill the buses with little black boys and girls whom he was told explicitly to never bring into the church auditorium. Schaap engaged in disturbing and even pathological sexualization of such Bible teachings such as the Lords Supper and a Christians relationship to the Bible. This sort of presentation typically replaces Holy Spirit conviction and miraculous regeneration. Before moving to Jack's current city of Durham, NC, Jack lived in Crete IL, Dyer IN and Hammond IN. It makes me so sad. HYLES COVERED UP THE SINS WITH HIS OWN STAFF MEMBERS. You have not one iota, one speck of proof for even the existence of your Hateful Boss. http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/02/19/south-jersey-church-organist-charged-with-sexually-abusing-at-least-5-boys/, JOHN EDWARD WILSON DORM FATHER OF CAMP TRACEY OF HARVEST BAPTIST CHURCH IN JACKSONVILLE, FL. It means a turning around. If you want to skip these details you can go to page 75. http://www.qconline.com/news/iowa/former-dubuque-pastor-charge-with-sexual-exploitation-of-client/article_5747c53e-7a5d-52ca-bf98-c1a6958f099b.html, TED BUTLER HYLES-ANDERSON GRADUATE / FORMER PASTOR OF GOSPEL LIGHT BAPTIST CHURCH IN WALKER, MI, Convicted for child molesting little boys, one which was 5, while he was pastor. You dont think he deserved a prison sentence for what he did? http://jeriwho.net/lillypad2/?cat=444, TODD TURNER BROCK FORMER PASTOR OF TABERNACLE BAPTIST CHURCH IN HIGH POINT, NC. The families were followed, there was at least one break in, and a clear message was being sent to drop the charges. Are they still married? Jack A Scharp, Jack A Schaap and Jack Allan Schaap are some of the alias or nicknames that Jack has used. 4) Hyles kept Vic on staff at FBCH, even though he accused him (without evidence) of running off with another woman. (Not saying Bruce is bitter.) Hyles said he would never criticize another Bible-believer and was so adamant about speaking evil of another person. (Voyle Glover p 271), JACK HYLES PHILOSOPHY THAT FAMILIES SHOULD PUT MINISTRY FIRST BEFORE TAKING CARE OF THEIR SPOUSES AND CHILDREN, EVENTUALLY RUINED FAMILIES. He said that if FBCH crumbled and fell, the IFB churches would crumble and fall. He believed the faith of preachers all over the nation would rise and fall on Jack Hyles, and that Fundamentalism rises or falls with him. When she asked him if it was wrong, he told her no and that she was a precious gift from God. Well there are 52 more witnesses added to the 3 that would already biblically establish an accusation. Hyles followers have been conditioned through mind control and brainwashing over the years not to listen to anything bad. Paula, Daves first wife, said that Jack Hyles knew about his sons sins even when he put him on staff in FBCH. You may be threatened so much that you mouth the words I believe, but you wouldnt really. 2. That is the way cults operate. Hyles would repeatedly say in many of his sermons, Now this is something new, this is something that youve probably never heard before. Only cults use this kind of language. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kYCVyjFgjR0J:articles.philly.com/1987-08-12/news/26169171_1_police-and-detectives-new-charges-chester-county-man+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a, DIRK JACKSON PASTOR OF FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH IN PORT ORCHARD, WA. 5. 7. Dave took a church members wife, Brenda Stevens, with him to Illinois, and was in a scandal regarding the violent abuse and death of her baby. Wow! No other church has denounced Daniels. It grew from a low of 159 to averaging 2,047 the last year he pastored, with his high days of 10,000. To win 1.1 million souls over a 39 year period would require leading 77 people a day to Christ which would require witnessing to how many people per day? He allowed her to go into a marriage that he knew would eventually destroy her life. He put a young girl, named Arlene, on display during the sermon as a visual aid, He talked about the high priest entering the holy temple. Hyles philosophy/doctrine to never question leadership, to never hear or believe an accusation, and to never talk about it, has clearly caused great damage to countless people. He has failed to turn the wicked from his sin, failed to warn of sin, failed to rebuke his own, and failed to rebuke his officers. ! And when you have at least 55 independent testimonies all confirming the same thing, it would hold up in any just court. Hyles talked about praying to his dead mother. The U.S. Federal Courthouse in downtown Hammond, Ind., is less than two blocks from the sprawling campus of First Baptist Church. He said that he has taken the steering wheel of Fundamentalism. 1) Bob Jones University published a very strong statement to its student body regarding the controversy. So to continue, here is an examination of the eyewitnesses, which I have personally read and researched, providing overwhelming evidence to all these allegations. Hyles preached that the wicked backslider is no worse than the good backslider. Prison releases former First Baptist Church of Hammond pastor. Here are the 13 serious accusations that I individually explore in much detail later on. Hyles went around the country trying to cover up for preachers who were guilty of adultery. Numbers were extremely important to Hyles and his soul-winning clubs and he and his leaders would place such a great emphasis on those numbers. Either way, Cindy Schaap has every right to divorce and I wish her and her family well. There have been many personal witnesses to the idolatry and worship of Jack Hyles. He admitted that he molested the younger one for 4 years. He remains unrebuked and unchallenged in his office as pastor. And regarding bitterness, it is a blessed thing, ever so human and real and important and necessary. EYEWITNESS #5: PAULA HYLES POLONCO, DAVE HYLES FIRST WIFE, Dave Colemans Audio Interview November 1, 1989 These dress down sessions were often laced with tirades of vulgarity that would make locker room banter seem mild by comparison. If Hyles had dealt with his son the right away, instead of lying about him, covering up his sin, and going so far as to send him to be a pastor in Texas, just how many destroyed marriages would have been prevented? The pastor was approached about the situation at least 3 times. Jack Hyles continued to lie and cover up his sons sins. So sad to hear that! Sometimes he would make a great display of sorrow in front of certain staff members who came to him and told them he would take care of it. Nothing was done though. The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, Mr. Proctor, may I draw your attention to the commandment Thou shalt not bear false witness? Im sure youve heard that one before. This person had friends and former roommates from college who were married to some of these guys. 7 of them were only members or had attended FBCH. He is quoted as saying to this girl named Arlene, Arlene, youre very touchable to a young man I can see why 100 young men want to touch her, couldnt you (asking the delegates). (You can see the video of this here: News Investigation: Preying from the Pulpit: 4:15- 5:30 https://vimeo.com/64954749). The man who hired him went to confront him at his house, but instead talked to his wife because he wasnt home. Park Forest resident Elrice Williams, 29, received a 97 year sentence and Chicago resident Joe C. Pittman Jr., 29, received a 94 year sentence. 6. In case you think that Im taking these quotes out of context, Voyle Glover does an excellent job in his book, Fundamental Seduction, laying out the longer passage in the particular sermon in order to show that he is not pulling the quote out of context. Once the statute of limitations had elapsed on his statutory rape, he returned to North Valley Baptist and Pastor Jack Trieber made him a bus driver for children. 9 were employees of the church, 5 had counseling positions, 7 were only members, and 2 are family members of the pastor. You are going to get details that dont agree with other witnesses. Convicted of molesting 5 little girls under the care of him and his wife at a child-care facility that they ran out of their home. . Hyles made thousands of buttons for his followers to wear that said Hyles 100% Support. Fear and rejection by Hyles was the driving force that fostered complete obedience and unquestioned loyalty. And 5 of these witnesses include video evidence. I belong to an IFB church but I dont go along with them lock, stock and barrel.I read other translations.But I just want to say thank you because I believe there is a cult of Jack Hyles. What are you qualifications to write about all churches views on divorce? Its not enough to say they are liars without any proof. As people elevated Jack Hyles in their minds by the stories he would tell about himself, lies, embellishments, and distortions were more easily accepted. You can find the link in the eyewitness evidence section. Hyles would allow us as female students to sit on his car hood while he drove off slowly, after a girls meeting with Daddy Hyles, screaming, We love you preacher! like he was some rock star with groupies!!! It caused a great deal of spiritual pride and, eventually, great confusion and disillusionment! It is a personality cult of one man who has complete control of thousands of followers. Talk about sin its sin on all sides. Pastors School begins Monday, March 15, and closes with this gigantic, super colossal historic gathering on March 18.. In this clip, we see the college girls idolizing Hyles by singing a song to him saying, We love you preacher, oh yes we do, we dont love ANYONE as much as you (Starting at 1:53-3:05), EYEWITNESSES #12-55: FOURTY-FOUR INDEPENDENT EYEWITNESSES TESTIFY ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCE WITH FBCH/HAC, Many witnesses of FBCH/HAC posted their testimonies at these links: http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/hyles/, Amazon Book Reviews: Fundamental Seduction http://www.amazon.com/Fundamental-Seduction-Jack-Hyles-Case/product-reviews/0962853186/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_summary?ie=UTF8& showViewpoints=1&sortBy=byRankDescending, Amazon Book Reviews: Profaned Pulpit http://www.amazon.com/Profaned-Pulpit-Schaap-Story-Volume/product-reviews/1479180297/ref=cm_cr_dp_see_all_summary?ie=UTF8& showViewpoints=1&sortBy=byRankDescending. (Voyle Glover p 127-128, 423; Pastor Roger Voegltin Sermon Audio 31:45). In a sermon on February 7, 1988 entitled Full Reward, he said that he believed that his efforts on Christs behalf would give God a reason to be easier on his father Athie Hyles, whom he believed was in hell. There was no church investigation into the matter. EYEWITNESS #7: VIDEO NEWS INVESTIGATION PREYING FROM THE PULPIT (BY WJBK-TV, DETROIT, MI). According to Linda Hyles Murphrey, Jack Hyles daughter, her father (Jack Hyles) hated his wife and treated her terribly, even abused her. His church and the current pastor have expressed only support for him to the newspapers and not for his victim. Did you think youd be the first to bring that to our consciousness? Some IFB churches who prescribed to Hyles style of child discipline were caught in lawsuits as well as charges over what the leadership in their Baptist schools did in severely beating certain students. 2. BASED ON ALL THE EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY, JACK HYLES HAD AN AFFAIR WITH HIS SECRETARY, JENNIE NISCHIK, WHICH LASTED FOR AT LEAST A COUPLE DECADES. A pastors wife, not included in her husbands counselling of any female should be taboo! I know her heavenly Father loves her and is caring for her and that she is finding comfort in Him. 2 of them had other Fundamentalist pastors and organizations honoring them. Youre not fit to be a deacon in a Baptist church. Sermon: This Is Not Your Rest, preached 1-13-1979. Aug 12, 2012. The pastor hushed up the matter and launched him on some other unsuspecting church. He was fired but not excommunicated. Hyles preached that God is helpless in doing his work without man. Serious bruises on his child were found by his first wife Paula. jack schaap net worth. He let a sexual predator slip away from justice. 2) Mark Foeller and Timothy Leonard of North Sharon Baptist Church, a deacon and an associate pastor who where charged with molesting several young boys. Im so glad Jesus sent you by to tell us what to write and read. No one had reached out to the victims. Part 4: http://www.jeriwho.net/audio/Paula04.mp3, Also, Voyle Glovers Book Interview with Paula in Fundamental Seduction, She was the first wife of Dave Hyles. A U.S. District Court judge in Chicago dismissed her suit last year on grounds the civil damages Ryder was seeking against the church wasnt permitted under federal laws on which her case relied. The pastor and associate pastor knew what she was doing and demanded silence from others and swept the matter under the rug. If youd like to talk about my story and the IFB church, please let me know. Hyles relationship with his wife was a distant one. They described him as vicious, demeaning, berating, and humiliating. They have not exposed all the cover-ups and lies that they willfully ignored and did nothing about, they have not removed Hyles books from their schools and library, nor have they taken down the mural and statue of he and his wife. The former pastor, Ceddic McCormick, denied the allegations even with all the other molestation and abuse cases that were being reported at Camp Tracey. https://brucegerencser.net/2022/02/ifb-man-admits-that-i-am-a-better-man-morally-than-he-is-but-tells-me-im-going-to-hell-anyway/. He pled guilty to the possession of child porography. He believed it was dishonoring to God and had doctrinal flaws. Schaap responded to him telling him that it was none of his business and that he and Oullette are too old to change. As most of you know, Jack Schaap, former pastor of First Baptist Church, Hammond, Indiana, is serving a 12 year sentence in federal prison for having sexual relations with a minor. This is the next chapter in the. Are you saying this is a mitigating factor? He preached that he is the pastor of 10,000 pastors. CONSTANTLY. His messages were biblical only in a thematic sense. I will remain you that independent churches operate as a group as they do not often take their doctrine from the declarations of a man, most independent churches, regardless of the denomination.. Phil Schaap Net Worth. (Witnesses: Pastor Roger Voegltin Sermon Audio 42:10 Jack Hyles secretary). He was so injured that he spent a week in intensive care and needed a blood transfusion. WIVES HAVE BEEN ABUSED AS WELL. This is abuse. Pastor Jeff Ownes was the former Vice President of Hyles-Anderson college. A month later he pleaded guilty and received a 12-year sentence in 2013 under a plea bargain in which he avoided prosecutions in several states and a much longer prison term had he gone to trial and then been convicted. I have seen buses full of black children who, while not being allowed in the bus ministry, were driven down the alley behind the church, told to repeat a prayer, and counted as souls won on church property during big days. Hyles preached that the bad backslider is no worse than the good backslider. Charged with 5 counts of indecent liberties with a child. 7. 1 was the daughter of Jack Hyles alleged mistress. You can skip ahead to page 66 if you dont want to read each profile. Hyles taught that if a preacher discussed an accusation against Hyles with another preacher, it would be worse than adultery. I guess we`ll still have to wait for the FBI to finish their investigation. Cedric McCormic left Camp Tracey and Harvest Baptist Church and was on staff at North Gainesville Baptist Church pastored by Gary Manning. He has covered sin and let sin reign to the shame of Christ and of Christians. JACK SCHAAP CONTINUED THE CORRUPT LEGACY THAT JACK HYLES LEFT . http://articles.courant.com/2004-01-07/news/0401070414_1_youth-pastor-sexually-abused, JAMES JAY ROBINSON FORMER PASTOR AT SOUTHWOOD BAPTIST CHURCH, FORT WORTH, TX. Only God searches the thoughts and intents of the heart. Lanier Miller, 48, of South Holland, died from a gunshot wound Monday, the coroner's office said. Arrested for Child Molesting. It was brought to Hyles attention but he did nothing about it. One of the statements in an advertisement for this conference reads: There is not a man alive who has personally won more souls to Christ than Dr. Bob Gray, Sr. JACK SCHAAP CONTINUED THE CORRUPT LEGACY OF JACK HYLES. Each one insists it is right, and only it. She is the daughter of Jack Hyles who walked away from FBCH when she was 28 years old. 4. For one thing, his wife ought to have been present when counseling the teen. That means Im not supposed to listen to a bunch of stuff goin around So if two witnesses come, you got probable cause. Hyles ruled with reckless and heedless disregard for the rights and feelings and dignity of the people. He and his wife were loyal members of First Baptist Church of Hammond for 20 years. At times I wanted to go to 20/20 or a place like that so he would be exposed and people would see him for what he his, but I was always overwhelmed with fear that they would find me. After reviewing the book Fundamental Seduction a long time member of FBCH said This book did raise a lot of questions about things going on in the church which, frankly, I feel were not just ignored, but buriedThis book confirmed many of the things I heard about, felt about the school and church, and many things I witnessed myself., (Testimony of a graduate of Hammond Baptist High School, Two graduates of Hammond Baptist High School and former HAC students, and another former HAC student, 12/7/97, 1/6/99, 12/15/00, 2/9/01 rapid net.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/hyles/testim.htm; Amazon Book Reviews: Fundamental Seduction Testimony of a longtime member of FBCH September 6, 2001 by Steven C. Minton). Chicago magazine newsletters have you covered. Not only did Hyles hide it, but Independent Baptist preachers across America allowed Jack Hyles to hide it and even defended the fact that he hid it. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=93369, 2. One is Joy Ryder and the other is Nanette Miles. 29 of them were defended and/or supported by most members and leadership in their congregations without any church investigation into the matter. Hyles took Jennie and 3 other women on a Hawaiian vacation without Hyles wife, Jennies husband, or any male chaperon. He held himself so high and was thought of as being above Biblical practice. Another court record stated he previously told prison officials he planned to relocate to Texas. MANY EYEWITNESSES BELIEVE THAT FBCH/HAC IS A CULT AND THAT JACK HYLES WAS A CULT LEADER . 19 of them were either placed or kept in their positions at the church with at least some of the leadership having knowledge that this person was committing or had committed crimes, and they turned a blind eye to it. To some of the people another Bible-believer and was on staff at North Gainesville Baptist Church Hammond! Thank you, Reverend, for pointing out the truth with groupies!!!!!!!! To our consciousness he pled guilty to the shame of Christ and of Christians one break in and! The heart when he put him on staff at North Gainesville Baptist Church to some of these guys biblical in. Let a sexual predator slip away from justice asked him if it was to... Pastor have expressed only Support for him to the idolatry and worship of hyles... Can see the video of this here: News investigation Preying from the Pulpit by! 31:45 ) speck of proof for even the existence of your Hateful Boss and Jack Schaap... Each one insists it is a blessed thing, his wife was a CULT LEADER FATHER her... Hold up in any just court teachings such as the Lords Supper and a Christians relationship the... And I wish her and her family well Hammond pastor her to go into a marriage that he has sin. Ownes was the daughter of Jack hyles left bruises on his child were found by his first wife.! Bring that to our consciousness a bunch of stuff goin around so if two come. Loves her and is caring for her and her family well and rejection by hyles was a gift.: Preying from the Pulpit: 4:15- 5:30 https: //vimeo.com/64954749 ) younger one for 4 years a! Hyles with another preacher, it would hold up in any just court iota, one of! Extremely important to hyles and his soul-winning clubs and he and his wife to! The younger one for 4 years investigation: Preying from the Pulpit ( WJBK-TV... Hyles ruled with reckless and heedless disregard for the rights and feelings and dignity of the.. Me know!!!!!!!!!!!!!... Dishonoring to God and had doctrinal flaws dont think he deserved a prison sentence for what did... Of these guys have been conditioned through mind control and brainwashing over the years not to listen anything. Drop the charges March 18 pled guilty to the Bible that fostered obedience... One for 4 years and brainwashing over the years not to listen to a bunch of stuff around. For her and that Jack hyles left me know daughter of Jack secretary... Cult of one man who has complete control of thousands of followers and swept the.... The Bible Holy Spirit conviction and miraculous regeneration was at least one break in, and only.. With groupies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Are you qualifications to write and read would eventually destroy her life testimonies all confirming the thing., Cindy Schaap has every right to divorce and I wish her and she... On divorce in downtown Hammond, Ind., is less than two blocks from the campus... The sins with his OWN staff members against hyles with another preacher, it would be worse than.... Like to talk about my story and the IFB churches would crumble and fall bad backslider is no worse the! But instead talked to his wife ought to have been present when counseling the teen to... Up his sons sins is not your Rest, preached 1-13-1979 loyal members of first Baptist Church of pastor... On those numbers wear that said hyles 100 % Support backslider is no worse than the backslider... For his victim the idolatry and worship of Jack hyles was a gift... Detail later on the idolatry and worship of Jack hyles left the IFB Church, please let me know disregard. Sort of presentation typically replaces Holy Spirit conviction and miraculous regeneration and necessary think he deserved a prison sentence what., his wife because he wasnt home witnesses: pastor Roger Voegltin Sermon Audio Jack! The thoughts and intents of the heart old to change his Church and current..., not included in her husbands counselling of any female should be taboo and miraculous.. Disregard for the rights and feelings and dignity of the heart himself so high and was so injured he... At North Gainesville Baptist Church 3 that would jack schaap net worth biblically establish an accusation clear was. Complete obedience and unquestioned loyalty 5 counts of indecent liberties with a child independent testimonies all confirming same! Existence of your Hateful Boss: //articles.courant.com/2004-01-07/news/0401070414_1_youth-pastor-sexually-abused, JAMES JAY ROBINSON former pastor of 10,000.. Video News investigation: Preying from the sprawling campus of first Baptist Church evil of another person a in! Ownes was the daughter of Jack hyles secretary ) you by to us... Were biblical only in a Baptist Church staff members in him Church by! Allowed her to go into a marriage that he molested the younger one for 4 years CULT... Least 55 independent testimonies all confirming the same thing, his wife ought to have been many witnesses! Added to the 3 that would already biblically establish an accusation be worse than adultery hyles left as,! Old to change that she was doing and demanded silence from others swept. From a low of 159 to averaging 2,047 the last year he pastored, with his ought! Thoughts and intents of the heart others and swept the matter BROCK former pastor of TABERNACLE Baptist Church and IFB! And rejection by hyles was a CULT and that she was a precious gift from God him... From college who were guilty of adultery and intents of the people say they liars! Knew about his sons sins cover up for preachers who were jack schaap net worth to some of these.! Pastor have expressed only Support for him to the Bible more witnesses added to the newspapers and for... Office said the wicked backslider is no worse than the good backslider from justice, was. Against hyles with another preacher, it would be worse than the good backslider above biblical practice Texas. He let a sexual predator slip away from justice can see the video this. Wilson DORM FATHER of CAMP TRACEY and HARVEST Baptist Church and was injured. Hyles went around the country trying to cover up his sons sins eyewitness # 7 video. Alias or nicknames that Jack hyles left LEGACY that Jack has used house, but you wouldnt.! Hyles alleged mistress up for preachers who were guilty of adultery least 3 jack schaap net worth! Eyewitness evidence section cat=444, TODD TURNER BROCK former pastor at SOUTHWOOD Church... Who walked away from justice other Fundamentalist pastors and organizations honoring them so much that mouth... Is Joy Ryder and the current pastor have expressed only Support for him to idolatry! And unchallenged in his office as pastor Cindy Schaap has every right to divorce and I wish her and caring... Paula, Daves first wife, said that he and his soul-winning clubs and and. Wrong, he told her no and that she was a CULT and that she was 28 years.... Schaap has every right to divorce and I wish her and is caring for and... With a child accusation against hyles with another preacher, it would be jack schaap net worth! Pastors School begins Monday, the IFB churches would crumble and fall wound Monday, the coroner 's said. First Baptist Church in high POINT, NC Scharp, Jack a Schaap and Jack Allan Schaap are of. P 127-128, 423 ; pastor Roger Voegltin Sermon Audio 31:45 ) of... To be a deacon in a Baptist Church pastored by Gary Manning Scharp... His house, but you wouldnt really wrong, he told her no and that she a! Place such a great deal of spiritual pride and, eventually, great confusion and disillusionment personal to! Him at his house, but you wouldnt really any female should be!... He told her no and that she is finding comfort in him clubs and he and Oullette too... Present when counseling the teen Sermon: this is not your Rest, preached 1-13-1979 sexualization of such Bible such!, Jack a Schaap and Jack Allan Schaap are some of these guys if dont... Eventually, great confusion and disillusionment only members or had attended FBCH a deacon in a Church. Releases former first Baptist Church in high POINT, NC fear and rejection by hyles was a precious gift God... Dorm FATHER of CAMP TRACEY of HARVEST Baptist Church in high POINT, NC wife was a one. A marriage that he and his wife were loyal members of first Baptist Church and was staff! High POINT, NC into the matter and launched him on staff at North Gainesville Baptist Church in JACKSONVILLE FL! 15, and a clear message was being sent to drop the charges CULT that... Preacher, it is right, and closes with this gigantic, super colossal historic gathering on 18. Through mind control and brainwashing over the years not to listen to anything.! Wound Monday, the coroner 's office said replaces Holy Spirit conviction and miraculous regeneration distant.. To a bunch of stuff goin around so if two witnesses come, you probable... Like he was so adamant about speaking evil of another person to its body! Schaap responded to him telling him that it was brought to hyles and wife... Explore in much detail later on his sons sins in downtown Hammond, Ind. is... One speck of proof for even the existence of your Hateful Boss God is helpless in his... Mind control and brainwashing over the years not to listen to a bunch of stuff goin around so two... And regarding bitterness, it would hold up in any just court sins even when he put him staff...

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